The thing I'm concerned with (with any supplements) is the long term effects... Nootroo/Nootropics is (or at least seems to be) relatively new so what evidence is there that this is a safe long-term supplement?
@bentossell likewise. I think this is bad science purported by a team of people who haven't dealt with organic chemistry beyond the blood brain barrier. They're shooting from the hip. This is a marketing/branding play.
I want to see the profiles of everyone on the team.*
@bentossell Hi Ben, the ingredients in Nootroo have all been thoroughly studied and tested in humans. On top of that we actually use the purest and highest-quality inputs available. We license our citicoline from Cognizin, who creates the only generally recognized as safe (GRAS) form of citicoline available on the market. Citicoline is found in everyday foods like eggs, nuts, and seeds. L-Theanine is found in the leaves of green tea, and the brand we license it from uses a 4-month long fermentation process that yields the only 100% pure L-isomer form with no chemical residues, etc. You should be familiar with caffeine and its safety, so I won't go into it to far. Our caffeine is in a co-crystal with pterostilbene. Pterostilbene is in the same family as resveratrol and is found in blueberries and would be found in wine, but it evaporates. The benefit of buying Nootroo is that you know everything is of the highest quality available, we spare no expenses.
As for noopept, in the body it metabolizes into the naturally occurring neuropeptide, cycloprolylglycine. A quote from one of the papers on its long-term effects notes that the "results indicate that chronic administration of Noopept is not accompanied by the development of tolerance, but potentiates the neurotrophic effect. Hence, long-term treatment with Noopept can improve neuronal recovery." And from the same paper: "Low toxicity of Noopept is associated with the endogenous nature of its major metabolites. That is why Noopept can be used for long-term preventive therapy." http://nootroo.com/researchvault...
Phenylpiracetam is piracetam with an added phenyl group and retains many of the same properties of piracetam, just potentiated. Piracetam is one of the safest molecules out there: "acute toxicity of piracetam is so low that no LD50 (the median lethal dose required to kill half of tested animals) could be determined for that compound." http://nootroo.com/researchvault...http://nootroo.com/researchvault...
@bentossell seeing as it's just caffeine and L-theanine that works in this product just buy bulk separately. Far cheaper and safe 😊
I could go on and on about this category of products being mostly marketing scams ATM but looks like Kumar is doing a good job of that.
@matznerd@bentossell Ben, he's misleading you because he's trying to explain things he probably doesn't understand.
He's not explaining how it works simply.
This type of digital behavior is usually a symptomatic of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about or are unsure of the the claims they're making.
I highly recommend that if you plan on buying these, that you show the cited claims/research to someone with actual research experience in biochemistry/organic chemistry/neuroscience.
@datarade I'm by no means pointing any fingers or anything like that. I have no experience in this area. But was just interested in the longer term effects.
Personally I want the pill from Limitless to come out haha
Every scientific bone in my body wants to tear this apart. The pressure is on for Nootroo to provide clear evidence and proof of the effects of their pills on humans. While I'm a fan of you, I'm disappointed that you promoted this @nivo0o0.
Somehow, I doubt @matznerd or his team will get remotely close to slaying any of the following 4 elephants in the room.
Genomic responses in mice don't replicate themselves in humans.
Most health claims made by the ~$40 billion supplements industry are based on non-human trials.
The gut and how we metabolize substances is largely mystery.
The brain and measuring it are far off right now.
A neuroscientists claims on the science behind brain research and the difficulty of claims:
http://mathbabe.org/2015/10/20/g...
Bold claims require bold evidence.........otherwise we go around promoting things like Lumosity, Anti-Vaxxing, and non-GMO foods.
@nivo0o0@matznerd
Analysis of Nootroo's research:
1. (how nootropics work) - study done on aged rats.
2. Study done on only 60 women but they claim increased verbal memory. How the fuck do they correlate or even measure something like that? You cannot simply model and simulate the brain.
3. Based on another nutrition company's claims. The other nutrition company happens to be a supplements company.
This is not going to be fun @matznerd. I gave Nootrobox a pass and didn't release the research we compiled. I'm afraid I won't do the same for your research.
@datarade I am happy to address you concerns, I have one of most vast libraries of research on nootropics in existence, as I am pretty much obsessed with the topic and am writing a book on their history and am happy get deep into the nitty gritty of this because the evidence is piled high. When you make points in the future, please try to be specific on the ingredients so I can give you a proper response, because when you drop comments like "the brain and measuring it are far off right now" it is statement that can be refuted simply based on the battery of accepted medical tests used to measure changes in cognitive activity, but if you don't accept standard tests as accurate, then we may have difficulty coming to a consensus. Also, please note that there are 6 ingredients between the two formulas, and so the answers could be very deep depending on what I am responding to. As I am writing this I have received multiple notifications from you on here and twitter so I will just get going. As for your first point regarding genomic responses in mice, I will note that there are human studies on all of the ingredients in Nootroo. And while you would be correct that rate studies and genomic responses are not always the same, you would be incorrect to say there is no value in rodent studies. I can't speak to the health claims made by other companies, but if the direct science does not convince you, go to reddit.com/r/nootropics or longecity.org or and read through the thousands of human reports on these ingredients. Can you give me more specific questions because your arguments seem like very generalized arguments aginst supplements in general.
@datarade@nivo0o0 Not sure why that is laughable? That research on phenylpiracetam (carphedon) is cited because it is the only official source that mentions the ability of phenylpiracetam to be "effective in increasing physical endurance and cold resistance." This is a widely known characteristic of phenylpiracetam and is the reason that it was utilized by professional winter athletes and triathletes and was subsequently put on WADA's list.
@datarade I have some full studies posted that you may want to read further before responding here. I think that you do not understand that Nootropics is an established concept, and it is not a marketing term or something I created. The nootropic concept was coined in 1972 by Corneliu Giurgea, a neuropharmacologist at UCB Pharma in Belgium. The scientists there were looking for a sleep drug related to GABA, and one of the molecules they created in the process, which would later be known as Piracetam, had properties that were almost the complete opposite of a sleep aid. It seemed to enhance learning and memory, prevented chemical and physical disruptions to memory formation, while having low side-effects, and only affected higher "telencephalic" activity. The term nootropics, which means "towards the brain", had to be coined because Giurgea could not find a category that it fit into. Here is an excerpt from one of Giurgea's papers summarizing the Nootropic concept after investigating it for a further 10 years:
"Obviously piracetam does not fit into any known categories of psychotropic drugs. The positive effect on brain integrative mechanisms in normal and deficient animals as well as in human patients may then express a direct impact upon mental functions. The ineffectiveness of the com- pound on limbic and reticular excitability allowed us to assume that piracetam shows a functional, telencephalic selectivity and, by way of consequence, that it opens up a new class of psychoanaleptic drugs (in the Delay-Deniker classification). Because drugs along this line “aim” selectively at the noetic functions, we suggest that they should be called nootropics (noos = mind; tropic = toward).
In contradistinction to usual psychotropics that act essentially indirectly upon higher telen- cephalic structures, piracetam’s main functional impact is the telencephalic, higher brain integrative activity: it enhances its efficacy and compensates, at least partially, for its deficits.
"
You can read the full paper here: The Nootropic Concept and Its Prospective Implications https://nootroo.com/researchvaul...
If you want to learn more about the history of nootropics and where they stand now, and the thousands of studies on them then you can check out the paper -> A Weird Concept With An Unusual Fate -> http://nootroo.com/researchvault...
If you want a review of many piracetam-like substances, including phenylpiracetam which is used in Nootroo, read this one -> Piracetam and Piracetam-Like Drugs From Basic Science to Novel Clinical Applications to CNS Disorders - http://nootroo.com/researchvault...
If you want to read about the first study on healthy college kids that kind of kicked off the whole "Smart drugs" and nootropics in healthy people craze in the 1970s, read this -> Increase in the Power of Human Memory in Normal Man through the Use of Drugs http://nootroo.com/researchvault...
If you want to have an actual discussion, I love nothing more than discussing nootropics. You can come to my meetup on Thursday and we can talk in person. Until you are caught up though, can you hold off on the unfounded attacks?
The updated Nootroo is finally on Product Hunt! I met @matznerd a year ago after seeing the original Nootroo on Product Hunt, ordering some, and asking if he wanted to meet up. We did, he explained all the science behind the concept and I was fascinated (and also got my order that day).
Nootropics are brain enhancing pills that help your memory and concentration. I am a fan of this emerging industry and excited with what's to come. You do feel an effect when taking them (best results come with continued use).
Eric is also launching 1-hour delivery in San Francisco today! Free for anyone ordering from Product Hunt today, and more cities to come. Eric can you explain the effects that people feel when taking Nootroo for the first time? (in non-science terms 😜)
Also, as a fan of GIFs... This GIF is 💯
@nivo0o0 Hi Niv, thanks for the hunt! We are really excited to be back on here and to be launching a much-requested feature: one-hour delivery. In a world where you can get almost anything delivered in an hour, why not something as important as nootropics? If you are in the 7x7, at checkout, an option for 1-hour delivery will appear, it is free today and tomorrow for all Product Hunters and will be $10-$20 for afterwards. We will be bringing one-hour and same-day delivery to more cities soon (NYC, LA, Chi, etc).
As for how Nootroo works, it is important to understand what nootropics are in the first place. The word nootropic is thrown around often, but it has a specific definition. The term nootropic means "towards the mind" and was coined in 1972 by a neuropharmacologist name Corneliu Giurgea, to describe a new molecule that would later be known as Piracetam. It had characteristics that had never been seen before in a single molecule, it appeared to enhance learning and memory, while having few side effects and extremely low toxicity even at high doses. It also protected the brain from physical damage like concussions and chemicals, while enhancing the firing mechanisms of neurons and preventing the disruption of memory formation.
Nootroo is an evolution and an outgrowth inspired directly from Giurgea's work. Our 30-day packs contain 15 of each of our 2 formulas, Silver and Gold, and are alternated between. We have taken the most effective 2nd and 3rd generation nootropics, noopept and phenylpiracetam and put them at as the main ingredients in each formula. These molecules work by increasing the brain's utilization of the memory neurotransmitter, acetylcholine. To ensure that the brain has enough acetylcholine, we supply an adequate amount of a precursor to acetylcholine, citicoline (Cognizin brand). Citicoline on its own, in the amount found in Nootroo, has been shown to improve attention performance in healthy adult women. Then to increase calming focus, we provide an amino acid from green tea called L-theanine, that is known to calm the brain down without making you tired. When L-theanine is combined with caffeine, it has effects greater than either alone. The caffeine we use is also unique and has over 7 patents on it. It is in a crystal form that allows us to use less than 1 cup's worth, but it lasts nearly double as long for attention for standard coffee (6+ hours vs 3.5).
TL;DR: The ingredients in Nootroo give 6+ hours increased mental performance and energy, while calming and focusing the mind.
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